My comment got binned again!

Just Be Cause is out again, but my comment on this:

non-Japanese residents are required to carry ID 24/7 in the form of wallet-size “gaijin cards,” nowadays known as zairyū kādo (resident cards).

where I complained that Mr Arudou is abusing the ‘g’-word again and making me feel micro-aggressed, but without being as pedantic as I was last time I complained, was not accepted by the moderator. Oh well.

However, if I wanted to be pedantic (and you all know I want to!), I could mention that if the gaijin cards are nowadays known as zairyu kado, why does he not use the new term? Why does he choose to mention “gaijin card” but neither ARC nor gaikokujin toroku shomei blahblahwaitwhileigoogleit?

On the other hand, as the article is competent and to the point – that is, it doesn’t read like an Arudou article – there’s little to complain about, and even his Japanese translations seem correct, if a little stilted. If someone has his Handbook, I wonder if they could check how much of a cut’n’paste there is?

Leave a comment ?

62 Comments.

  1. Then VK implied that for my statements about the law to be correct, that somehow I need show “evidence at of a nationwide policy of unintentional harassment of foreigners by police”.

    Nope, I implied nothing of the sort. You really do have tremendous difficulty understanding what other people say.

    By the way, it’s nice to know you think it’s an utter democratic outrage that the police do random alcohol checks on drivers. It’s a proven method of reducing road deaths, but that’s not important, I guess.

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  2. Immigration knocking on every door in an apartment that has lots of apparently foreign people living in it might also be a proven method of reducing overstayers, but it still is illegal.

    Stopping people randomly and forcing them to show their bags might be a proven method of reducing future knife attacks, but it still is illegal.

    Your “ends justifies the means” implication about “stopping future deaths is worth police ignoring current restrictive laws” is what is wrong here. That’s what’s important here. Officials obeying the legislated laws.

    And yes, you did take my posts on this thread, in which I said the police are doing something illegal by randomly stopping people, and YOU wrote:

    “there is simply no evidence at all of a nationwide policy of even unintentional harassment of foreigners by police on the beat”

    that’s a strawman, I didn’t say that, nor did I imply that, I simply was discussing whether random stops are legal or illegal

    “and therefore a campaign of non-cooperation with law enforcement officers has no purpose – other than to fuel the racist fantasies of people like you that the “little yellow Japs” have it in for whitey.”

    again, a serious strawman, that I have a racist fantasy of words which you write and think but I don’t.

    You guys talk about putting words into people’s mouths, and building strawmen, but there you are plainly caught VK, implying that “people like me” are discussing some thing which obviously I am not.

    I came to this thread to correct the claims made on this site, and on tepido, that “random stops are legal.” The judge has made it clear that you were wrong, and still you aren’t admitting you were wrong.

    Anyway, I’m glad that Ken’s demands for “interpretation proof” to spoon-feed you guys the reality that “can stop people in this instance, this instance, and this instance” actually DOES mean, “CAN’T stop people anytime else.”

    Point blank: did most people here think random stops were legal? Yes. Well, slightly qualified Yes: “Yes, when it comes to simply stopping foreigners and asking them to prove they aren’t overstayers, Yes, in that case I thought such random stops were legal.”

    Did most people here get confronted with an undeniable court judgement that says “違法な職務質問” are a punishable offense? Yes.

    Did most people here admit they were spouting incorrect law interpretations? No.

    And now, when the PDF has been posted with the proof you asked for, now you’re moving the goal posts again and writing:

    “random alcohol checks on drivers are a proven method of reducing road deaths.”

    So it doesn’t matter to you what the legislated laws are, all that was just a charade, you are saying outright that in your opinion the end justifies the means, preventing future crimes excuses police violations of laws.

    You really need to vote in some legislators that believe that random stops (for knives, bombs, drunks, overstayers, whatever your big fear is) should be allowed with some new less-restrictive laws.

    But until then VK, the fact remains that I was correct when I explained to you folks, here and at Tepido, that random stops are illegal, because they lack probable cause of a crime.

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  3. @JTW:

    Folks here, including The Apologist, including Ken, said, “Show proof that it is illegal for police to stop people for questioning without probable cause of a crime.”

    I certainly didn’t say that. As others have said, stop inventing straw men. :evil:

    Anyway, wasn’t the point of this whole thread that we were actually discussing if the laws about asking for a Zairyu Card overrides the ones for Shokumu Shitsumon?

    BTW, that is a rhetorical question. Please don’t answer it until you take your case to the supreme court.

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  4. @Ken Y-N: I thought the whole thread was about comments being binned. I think there are a few in this that could probably be binned… :twisted:

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  5. I don’t believe I’ve actually said anything particularly categorical about the legality of police asking for ID. I think there’s a grey area – but I suspect that’s getting too far into what I actually am saying and too far from what JTW would like me to be saying ;-)

    As for accusations of having the end justify the means, I’m afraid there’s little difference in that respect between talking about random drink/driving tests saving lives and going on about poor Suraj – except in the body count, and in the strength of the connection between police powers on the street and deaths prevented or caused.

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  6. Actually Ken, you did write:

    “If it* was so illegal, why is no-one serious bringing up the topic? All we have is one person claiming to be a Todai grad and another an ex-police officer. Show me a JCP or SDP member, for instance, talking about it in the Diet as this would be right up their civil liberties street.”

    * It = stopping people without probable cause.

    So yes, you DID say “Show proof that it is illegal for police to stop people for questioning without probable cause of a crime.”

    So I showed you court evidence backing up my statements on this thread, the evidence I gave you was MORE than some JCP or SDP member’s opinion, the evidence was an actual court ruling, and yet you think you can now say “no, I need SUPREME court.”

    And finally you shift the conversation back to the Zairyu card only area (which is silly, because according to Immigration Control Law the Zairyu card must be carried but only shown to officers who ask for it “when in their Police Duties (which are clearly defined and limited by Dai-Ni-Jou”).)

    OK, meanwhile, about Japanese citizens, I guess you have no choice but to rationally admit that the judgement shown above clearly proves that it IS illegal to stop Japanese citizens without probable cause.

    You can still claim you don’t understand what the Immigration Control Law’s “in the line of police duties” limiting qualification means, but:

    You must logically admit that that it IS illegal to stop JAPANESE CITIZENS without probable cause, right?

    Please, show a tiny bit of rational logical admittance that the judgement of that Japanese judge proved that fact, please.

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  7. KT88 (frowin lox loik a Palestinian and an Israeli in a bar fight or summit)

    Cool debate goiz. Actual relevance to actual real life factor? Don’t care…ermagahd! The police! Are they gonna question me? It’s cos I’m mad doggin em innit? Cos I’m a gaijin.

    This whole thing is so played out.

    Mean it if you say it. Get your law degree, your PhD and take it to the real battleground. Make some real progress cos ain’t nothin happenin in a circular masturbate between duelling dicks on the internet.

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  8. Re “get a PhD”: I just noted that Debito signed his latest post “Dr. ARUDOU, Debito.” Is he all PhDed up?

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  9. Poor guy. Post Holiday Depression.

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  10. Sir Ken on the phone O.B.E.

    @Durf: Yeah, I’ve noticed before that he likes to sneak things in like that.

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  11. Was it from an Ivy League institution? Apparently that’s really important.

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  12. Probably. Apparently, he was in Japan a month or so ago for his oral. Nonetheless, a bit of a twatish way to sign off. Do Japanese PhD qualify for using that honorific? Thought it was only medical doctors in Japan.

    Based on the standards of getting a Japanese academic to sign off on work done abroad for a Phd, I look forward to reading a Nature paper from him soon

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